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 Though argument does not create conviction, lack of it destroys belief.
Author: Henry David Thoreau (219.137.130.---)
Date:   11-29-05 15:42

<P>The former post was removed as it was off topic. We will be migrating to registration-only forums at <a href=http://jollyrogerwest.com>jollyrogerwest.com Great Books forums</a> and <a href=http://booksliterature.com>booksliterature.com Great Books forums</a>. These are Great Books sites, and we prefer posts such as:<P> Some editors are failed writers, but so are most writers.
T. S. EliotIt is a medium of entertainment which permits millions of people to listen to the same joke at the same time, and yet
remain
lonesome.
T. S. EliotMathematics, rightly viewed, possesses not only truth, but supreme beauty-a beauty cold and austere, like
that of sculpture. -Bertand Russell, Mysicism and Logic, 1918The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more
certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie
through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but
through striving after rational knowledge. --Albert Einstein

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 Very nice site!
Author: John8424 (200.212.144.---)
Date:   05-11-06 07:02

<P>The former post was off topic and was thus removed as it was a violation of our
Great Books & Classics spirit. These forums are being phased out & replaced. Join us at our new
registration-only forums at:
<a href==http://jollyrogerwest.com>jollyrogerwest.com Great Books forums</a>,
<a href=http://22philosophyforums.com>Philosophy Forums</a>,
and <a href=http://booksliterature.com>booksliterature.com Great Books forums</a>.

Please respect that these are Great Books sites. We prefer discussions along the following
lines:<P> I tell you what really turns my toes up: love scenes with 68-year-old men
and actresses young enough to be their granddaughter.
Mel Gibson

What makes him think a middle aged actor, who\'s played with a chimp, could
have a future in politics?
Ronald Reagan
<P>The Nobel is a ticket to one\'s own funeral. No one has ever done anything after he got it.
T. S. Eliot<P><P>What does love look like? It has the hands to help others. It has the feet to hasten to the poor and needy. It has eyes to
see misery and want. It has the ears to hear the sighs and sorrows of men. That is what love looks like.
St. Augustine 354-430, Numidian-born Bishop of Hippo, Theologian<P>

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 Very nice site!
Author: John9043 (---.sd.sd.cox.net)
Date:   05-11-06 15:23

<P>The former post was off topic and was thus removed as it was a violation of our
Great Books & Classics spirit. These forums are being phased out & replaced. Join us at our new
registration-only forums at:
<a href==http://jollyrogerwest.com>jollyrogerwest.com Great Books forums</a>,
<a href=http://22philosophyforums.com>Philosophy Forums</a>,
and <a href=http://booksliterature.com>booksliterature.com Great Books forums</a>.

Please respect that these are Great Books sites. We prefer discussions along the following
lines:<P> Let\'s not be narrow, nasty, and negative.
T. S. EliotBeauty is truth, truth is beauty, -that is all
Ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.
John Keats, Ode on a Grecian Urn, 1819<P>

Founding Fathers Quotes

Besides, to lay and collect internal taxes in this extensive country must require a great number of congressional ordinances,
immediately operation upon the body of the people; these must continually interfere with the state laws and thereby produce
disorder and general dissatisfaction till the one system of laws or the other, operating upon the same subjects, shall be
abolished.
Federal Farmer, Antifederalist Letter, October 10, 1787

<P><P>

Going to college offered me the chance to play football for four more
years.
Ronald Reagan
<P>

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 Very nice site!
Author: John9284 (---.bbtec.net)
Date:   05-11-06 18:39

<P>The former post was off topic and was thus removed as it was a violation of our
Great Books & Classics spirit. These forums are being phased out & replaced. Join us at our new
registration-only forums at:
<a href==http://jollyrogerwest.com>jollyrogerwest.com Great Books forums</a>,
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and <a href=http://booksliterature.com>booksliterature.com Great Books forums</a>.

Please respect that these are Great Books sites. We prefer discussions along the following
lines:<P> There is no method but to be very intelligent.
T. S. Eliot<pre>
CXI

O! for my sake do you with Fortune chide,
The guilty goddess of my harmful deeds,
That did not better for my life provide
Than public means which public manners breeds.
Thence comes it that my name receives a brand,
And almost thence my nature is subdu\'d
To what it works in, like the dyer\'s hand:
Pity me, then, and wish I were renew\'d;
Whilst, like a willing patient, I will drink,
Potions of eisel \'gainst my strong infection;
No bitterness that I will bitter think,
Nor double penance, to correct correction.
Pity me then, dear friend, and I assure ye,
Even that your pity is enough to cure me.
--William Shakespeare</pre>
<P><pre>
III

Look in thy glass and tell the face thou viewest
Now is the time that face should form another;
Whose fresh repair if now thou not renewest,
Thou dost beguile the world, unbless some mother.
For where is she so fair whose unear\'d womb
Disdains the tillage of thy husbandry?
Or who is he so fond will be the tomb,
Of his self-love to stop posterity?
Thou art thy mother\'s glass and she in thee
Calls back the lovely April of her prime;
So thou through windows of thine age shalt see,
Despite of wrinkles this thy golden time.
But if thou live, remember\'d not to be,
Die single and thine image dies with thee.
--William Shakespeare</pre>
<P><P>We know too much, and are convinced of too little. Our literature is a substitute for religion, and so is our religion.
T. S. Eliot<P>

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 Very nice site!
Author: John6373 (61.144.222.---)
Date:   05-11-06 22:30

<P>The former post was off topic and was thus removed as it was a violation of our
Great Books & Classics spirit. These forums are being phased out & replaced. Join us at our new
registration-only forums at:
<a href==http://jollyrogerwest.com>jollyrogerwest.com Great Books forums</a>,
<a href=http://22philosophyforums.com>Philosophy Forums</a>,
and <a href=http://booksliterature.com>booksliterature.com Great Books forums</a>.

Please respect that these are Great Books sites. We prefer discussions along the following
lines:<P>

Art is idea. It is not enough to draw, paint, and sculpt. An
artist should be able to think.
Gordon Woods
When beauty fires the blood, how love exalts the mind. -John Dryden, 1700<P><pre>
CVI

When in the chronicle of wasted time
I see descriptions of the fairest wights,
And beauty making beautiful old rime,
In praise of ladies dead and lovely knights,
Then, in the blazon of sweet beauty\'s best,
Of hand, of foot, of lip, of eye, of brow,
I see their antique pen would have express\'d
Even such a beauty as you master now.
So all their praises are but prophecies
Of this our time, all you prefiguring;
And for they looked but with divining eyes,
They had not skill enough your worth to sing:
For we, which now behold these present days,
Have eyes to wonder, but lack tongues to praise.
--William Shakespeare</pre>
<P><P><pre>
XIV

Not from the stars do I my judgement pluck;
And yet methinks I have astronomy,
But not to tell of good or evil luck,
Of plagues, of dearths, or seasons\' quality;
Nor can I fortune to brief minutes tell,
Pointing to each his thunder, rain and wind,
Or say with princes if it shall go well
By oft predict that I in heaven find:
But from thine eyes my knowledge I derive,
And constant stars in them I read such art
As \'Truth and beauty shall together thrive,
If from thyself, to store thou wouldst convert\';
Or else of thee this I prognosticate:
\'Thy end is truth\'s and beauty\'s doom and date.\'

XV

When I consider every thing that grows
Holds in perfection but a little moment,
That this huge stage presenteth nought but shows
Whereon the stars in secret influence comment;
When I perceive that men as plants increase,
Cheered and checked even by the self-same sky,
Vaunt in their youthful sap, at height decrease,
And wear their brave state out of memory;
Then the conceit of this inconstant stay
Sets you most rich in youth before my sight,
Where wasteful Time debateth with decay
To change your day of youth to sullied night,
And all in war with Time for love of you,
As he takes from you, I engraft you new.
--William Shakespeare</pre>
<P>

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 Very nice site!
Author: John5379 (221.156.74.---)
Date:   05-13-06 05:56

<P>The former post was off topic and was thus removed as it was a violation of our
Great Books & Classics spirit. These forums are being phased out & replaced. Join us at our new
registration-only forums at:
<a href==http://jollyrogerwest.com>jollyrogerwest.com Great Books forums</a>,
<a href=http://22philosophyforums.com>Philosophy Forums</a>,
and <a href=http://booksliterature.com>booksliterature.com Great Books forums</a>.

Please respect that these are Great Books sites. We prefer discussions along the following
lines:<P> The hardest thing in the world to understand is the income tax. --Albert
Einstein

I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn\'t
say any other way -- things I had no words for.
Georgia O\'Keeffe
<P>

My fellow Americans, I am pleased to tell you I just signed legislation
which outlaws Russia forever. The bombing begins in five minutes.
Ronald Reagan
<P><P><pre>
XXVI

Lord of my love, to whom in vassalage
Thy merit hath my duty strongly knit,
To thee I send this written embassage,
To witness duty, not to show my wit:
Duty so great, which wit so poor as mine
May make seem bare, in wanting words to show it,
But that I hope some good conceit of thine
In thy soul\'s thought, all naked, will bestow it:
Till whatsoever star that guides my moving,
Points on me graciously with fair aspect,
And puts apparel on my tatter\'d loving,
To show me worthy of thy sweet respect:
Then may I dare to boast how I do love thee;
Till then, not show my head where thou mayst prove me.
--William Shakespeare</pre>
<P>

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 Very nice site!
Author: John7881 (58.142.138.---)
Date:   05-13-06 07:21

<P>The former post was off topic and was thus removed as it was a violation of our
Great Books & Classics spirit. These forums are being phased out & replaced. Join us at our new
registration-only forums at:
<a href==http://jollyrogerwest.com>jollyrogerwest.com Great Books forums</a>,
<a href=http://22philosophyforums.com>Philosophy Forums</a>,
and <a href=http://booksliterature.com>booksliterature.com Great Books forums</a>.

Please respect that these are Great Books sites. We prefer discussions along the following
lines:<P> No Christian and, indeed, no historian could accept the epigram which defines religion as \'what a man does with his
solitude.\'
C. S. Lewis, The Weight of Glory

Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn\'t
pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for,
protected, and handed on for them to do the same.
Ronald Reagan
<P>

Henry David Thoreau
Live your beliefs and you can turn the world around.

<P><P>Friendship is unnecessary, like philosophy, like art . . . it has no survival value; rather is one of those things that
give
value to survival.

- C.S. Lewis, In Friendship<P>

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 Very nice site!
Author: John8657 (---.catv01.itscom.jp)
Date:   05-13-06 07:32

<P>The former post was off topic and was thus removed as it was a violation of our
Great Books & Classics spirit. These forums are being phased out & replaced. Join us at our new
registration-only forums at:
<a href==http://jollyrogerwest.com>jollyrogerwest.com Great Books forums</a>,
<a href=http://22philosophyforums.com>Philosophy Forums</a>,
and <a href=http://booksliterature.com>booksliterature.com Great Books forums</a>.

Please respect that these are Great Books sites. We prefer discussions along the following
lines:<P> Nothing lasts except beauty--and I shall create that.
-Thomas Wolfe, Letters to His Mother (1943)<pre>
XXXII

If thou survive my well-contented day,
When that churl Death my bones with dust shall cover
And shalt by fortune once more re-survey
These poor rude lines of thy deceased lover,
Compare them with the bett\'ring of the time,
And though they be outstripp\'d by every pen,
Reserve them for my love, not for their rhyme,
Exceeded by the height of happier men.
O! then vouchsafe me but this loving thought:
\'Had my friend\'s Muse grown with this growing age,
A dearer birth than this his love had brought,
To march in ranks of better equipage:
But since he died and poets better prove,
Theirs for their style I\'ll read, his for his love\'.
--William Shakespeare</pre>
<P><pre>
C

Where art thou Muse that thou forget\'st so long,
To speak of that which gives thee all thy might?
Spend\'st thou thy fury on some worthless song,
Darkening thy power to lend base subjects light?
Return forgetful Muse, and straight redeem,
In gentle numbers time so idly spent;
Sing to the ear that doth thy lays esteem
And gives thy pen both skill and argument.
Rise, resty Muse, my love\'s sweet face survey,
If Time have any wrinkle graven there;
If any, be a satire to decay,
And make time\'s spoils despised every where.
Give my love fame faster than Time wastes life,
So thou prevent\'st his scythe and crooked knife.
--William Shakespeare</pre>
<P><P><pre>
CXLI

In faith I do not love thee with mine eyes,
For they in thee a thousand errors note;
But \'tis my heart that loves what they despise,
Who, in despite of view, is pleased to dote.
Nor are mine ears with thy tongue\'s tune delighted;
Nor tender feeling, to base touches prone,
Nor taste, nor smell, desire to be invited
To any sensual feast with thee alone:
But my five wits nor my five senses can
Dissuade one foolish heart from serving thee,
Who leaves unsway\'d the likeness of a man,
Thy proud heart\'s slave and vassal wretch to be:
Only my plague thus far I count my gain,
That she that makes me sin awards me pain.
--William Shakespeare</pre>
<P>

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 Very nice site!
Author: John6353 (---.69.147.117.techtelnet.net)
Date:   05-19-06 00:36

<P>The former post was off topic and was thus removed as it was a violation of our
Great Books & Classics spirit. These forums are being phased out & replaced. Join us at our new
registration-only forums at:
<a href==http://jollyrogerwest.com>jollyrogerwest.com Great Books forums</a>,
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and <a href=http://booksliterature.com>booksliterature.com Great Books forums</a>.

Please respect that these are Great Books sites. We prefer discussions along the following
lines:<P>

We shape our buildings; thereafter they shape us.
Sir Winston Churchill


Form ever follows function.
Louis H. Sullivan
<P>

I\'ll make them big like huge buildings going up. People will be
startled; they will have to look at them.
Georgia O\'Keeffe, flower series
<P><P>Patience: St. Augustine Quotes
Patience is the companion of wisdom.<P>

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 Very nice site!
Author: John6444 (219.94.108.---)
Date:   05-20-06 06:47

<P>The former post was off topic and was thus removed as it was a violation of our
Great Books & Classics spirit. These forums are being phased out & replaced. Join us at our new
registration-only forums at:
<a href==http://jollyrogerwest.com>jollyrogerwest.com Great Books forums</a>,
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and <a href=http://booksliterature.com>booksliterature.com Great Books forums</a>.

Please respect that these are Great Books sites. We prefer discussions along the following
lines:<P>

Life obliges me to do something, so I paint.
Rene Magritte
<pre>
LVII

Being your slave what should I do but tend,
Upon the hours, and times of your desire?
I have no precious time at all to spend;
Nor services to do, till you require.
Nor dare I chide the world-without-end hour,
Whilst I, my sovereign, watch the clock for you,
Nor think the bitterness of absence sour,
When you have bid your servant once adieu;
Nor dare I question with my jealous thought
Where you may be, or your affairs suppose,
But, like a sad slave, stay and think of nought
Save, where you are, how happy you make those.
So true a fool is love, that in your will,
Though you do anything, he thinks no ill.
--William Shakespeare</pre>
<P>Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can
be counted counts. --Albert Einstein<P><P>When beauty fires the blood, how love exalts the mind. -John Dryden, 1700<P>

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 Very nice site!
Author: John8996 (66.213.76.---)
Date:   05-20-06 12:51

<P>The former post was off topic and was thus removed as it was a violation of our
Great Books & Classics spirit. These forums are being phased out & replaced. Join us at our new
registration-only forums at:
<a href==http://jollyrogerwest.com>jollyrogerwest.com Great Books forums</a>,
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and <a href=http://booksliterature.com>booksliterature.com Great Books forums</a>.

Please respect that these are Great Books sites. We prefer discussions along the following
lines:<P> <pre>
XI

As fast as thou shalt wane, so fast thou grow\'st,
In one of thine, from that which thou departest;
And that fresh blood which youngly thou bestow\'st,
Thou mayst call thine when thou from youth convertest,
Herein lives wisdom, beauty, and increase;
Without this folly, age, and cold decay:
If all were minded so, the times should cease
And threescore year would make the world away.
Let those whom nature hath not made for store,
Harsh, featureless, and rude, barrenly perish:
Look, whom she best endow\'d, she gave thee more;
Which bounteous gift thou shouldst in bounty cherish:
She carv\'d thee for her seal, and meant thereby,
Thou shouldst print more, not let that copy die.
--William Shakespeare</pre>


Founding Fathers Quotes

And it is no less true, that personal security and private property rest entirely upon the wisdom, the stability, and the
integrity of the courts of justice.
Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution, 1833

<P>This glad union hadmade it morning there,
And evening here: our hemisphere was dark,
While all the mountain bathed in white, when I
Saw Beatrice turned around, facing left,
her eyes raised to the sun-no eagle ever
couls stare so fixed and straight into such light!
-Dante, The Divine Comedy: Paradise<P><P>

No longer shall I paint interiors with men reading and women
knitting. I will paint living people who breather and feel and suffer and
love.
Edvard Munch
<P>

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 Very nice site!
Author: John3914 (66.213.76.---)
Date:   05-20-06 13:05

<P>The former post was off topic and was thus removed as it was a violation of our
Great Books & Classics spirit. These forums are being phased out & replaced. Join us at our new
registration-only forums at:
<a href==http://jollyrogerwest.com>jollyrogerwest.com Great Books forums</a>,
<a href=http://22philosophyforums.com>Philosophy Forums</a>,
and <a href=http://booksliterature.com>booksliterature.com Great Books forums</a>.

Please respect that these are Great Books sites. We prefer discussions along the following
lines:<P>

The government\'s view of the economy could be summed up in a few short
phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it
stops moving, subsidize it.
Ronald Reagan
What seems to be proved may not be embraced; but what no one shows the ability to defend is quickly abandoned.
C.S. Lewis<P>Love: St. Augustine Quotes
Love is the beauty of the soul.<P><P>If you aren\'t in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?
T. S. Eliot<P>

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